Mr. Steak posted:

is there a particular reason you specified "town" here?

CapnAndy posted:

I made a really obvious and lazy joke that somehow killed jokephase when some people entirely missed the joke and then other people critized those people.

Squiggly claimed he's a miller and that if two people vote him he can let the town talk at night, but later clarified that it turns on the next night and he has charges for that power anyway so he doesn't need votes anyway and also it's actually twilight we can talk during???

Apart from the maigius thing those are the two main important points, I think.

CapitalistPig posted:

I'll invite you to my masonry.

Squiggly posted:

The only reason I made it was because miller duh

xopods posted:

I notice that not a lot of people are voting Scientastic, who is the scummiest person in the game right now. You should all do that.

Spoonsy's vote on Hum seems lazy and superficial, but you could say the same about the people voting for him. There have been a lot of lazy, superficial votes this game e.g. on the Andy joke scumclaim... I think that's more a symptom of the game size than an alignment tell on D1.

Voodoofly posted:

Yeah i sort of agree with hum. I think the responses to his speculation post are pretty strange and worth looking at once I’m not on my phone.

Sandwolf posted:

Spoonsy posted:

I’m on mobile but does the OP say anything about N0 actions? Either way, between that and this statement of two scum groups (which once again, mobile, but has anyone else brought up?), I feel comfortable in ##vote Humalong

If I’m wrong we look at CapitalistPig tomorrow.

I don’t really see this holding water against Spoonsy. Yeah he was wrong and believed kind of a stupid joke but I don’t think the thought process on display here is scummy. Real scum would have none this would not have worked and not so eagerly jumped into promotion of a chain lunch this early D1z

Pussy Quipped posted:

T-t-two scum teams???

xopods posted:

Yeah, ##vote Scientastic

I really don't like this whole "I was just kidding to provoke a reaction" backpedal. The original vote on Andy didn't seem like a joke to me, especially not after this response to me:


It's scummy the way he's now backpedaling from it and making it out like the whole point from the start was to see who'd react. Especially when supposedly scummy reactions include: (1) Voting Andy, (2) Defending Andy, (3) Being on the fence about Andy.

CapitalistPig posted:

I'll invite you to my masonry.

Voodoofly posted:

I'd definitely vote merk over maigius. I'm actually at the point now where I don't want to vote maigius at all - I think it was strange to claim but nothing about his claim seems scummy and I think a lot of the cases on him are way worse.

I'm fine voting merk. The post about Tom bragging about scum-hunting alone was pretty bad. I also think his case on Sand sucks and I agree with whoever made the joke about merk never mentioning meta this many times in any game ever.

However, I think his case on Science is a legit case - I don't think merk was trying to softpeddle his defense of steak, it was pretty blatant and about the only thing he did on Day 1.

So yeah I'd vote merk but I really prefer the vote on Andy. Going to read Science next I guess.

Voodoofly posted:

So my biggest issue with Maigius today is the claim seems to come out of nowhere. He has admitted he thinks it was a stupid idea. How the claim came out itself I don't think is scummy - actually I guess not coming after merk out of the gate might be scummy since he eventually says he thinks merk is scum and he saw him last night.

But nonetheless I don't think anything about his claim sounds like he is lying or twisting it as it goes or anything and I'm just going to say again I have no drat idea why people are so bent on trying to capture people in a lie or claim that XXX role has no town, or scum, or whatever uses in a game this strange.

Maigius posted:

I know my last second vote change to Spoonsy was a bit weird, but I had lost track of the vote count. Shortly afterwards Spoonsy did the vote echo thing that still feels weird to me, so I didn't switch back. I claim was in a moment of brain fart, where I thought it was a good idea. Looking back, I don't know why I did it. Currently, merk is pinging as scum right now.

Maigius posted:

Why else you you disturb a dead body?

MisterJed posted:

Maigius is probably scum, but I'm not buying the case on merk. Many people this game thought steak was scummy for him acting the way he usually does, but merk (and others) were right that it's hard to peg a ready on him D1 because he is always act like this. I think criticizing merk's"strongly advocated" language isn't compelling, and I don't think him holding back on saying anything about the Maigius's claim is inherently scummy. There may be something there but the Maigius case is much more clear.

Jose Valasquez posted:

I didn't even know this guy was in the game, but he's a good candidate for a maigius scum buddy doing some light D1 bussing.

The rest of his posts are just hanging out on the periphery of other people's posts.

His one D1 take is:

Although unless he posts more he'll be modkilled anyway

xopods posted:

Anyway, this Spoonsy stuff seems like a moot point today because we probably have to lunch either merk or Maigius at this point...

I'm tempted to switch to merk because I can't figure out why he wouldn't explicitly confirm or deny the claim. I mean, if Maigius were lying, presumably merk would say so. But if merk did pick up the item I don't know why he'd refuse to say so... as either alignment really. It seems scummy to withhold that info but I don't see the upside in that case... it's not LESS suspicious to refuse to reveal anything, since collecting items from the dead isn't an inherently scummy power (thematically maybe, but not mechanically).

It's really confusing. Like, maybe he's hoping that Maigius will flip something that makes it apparent Maigius was lying and that we'll leave him alone after that, but then surely someone's going to ask "well if Maigius was lying why didn't you say so?"

xopods posted:

Yeah, I dunno. I'm hopelessly behind on work today and have to think about that and not this but ##vote merk for now at least.

xopods @ merk posted:

Have you contributed anything to this game yourself beyond OMGUSing everyone who calls you scum?

Jose Valasquez posted:

I didn't look that closely at timestamps tbh, almost all of your D1 posts happened in a 2 hour window so maybe just post more?

Scientastic posted:

Because I'm feeling generous, I'm going to go ahead and summarise my initial case against merk, before all of the subsequent behaviour.

Merk's posting around Steak just looks bad

I feel that merk's posting around Steak is out of character, for reasons which I didn't really articulate properly at the time

Merk's claim that he "strongly advocated" that Steak was town is not accurate: what merk did was stronly advocate against making an alignment call on Steak, which is not the same thing. He ONCE said Steak was playing his town game, but even that post was equivocal, saying that Steak appeared to be doing genuine scumhunting, but that it had some self-meta defence in there. No-one can possibly read merk's D1 posts around Steak and say that he was "strongly advocating" that Steak was TOWN. What he did was advocate that Steak shouldn't be lynched, while going out of his way to avoid a concrete statement that Steak was definitely town for good reasons.

I think what happened was that I called merk out, and he realised he had to say something: he hoped that he could say "I defended Steak, my bad, it happens, let's move on", but he overegged it, and when I called this out, he thought that the best way to get out of it was to discredit me.

DGK2000 posted:

Andy, because of this case right here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3922476&pagenumber=32&perpage=40#post505403004

Sub Rosa posted:

Do people read this as a serious claim of being a mason recruiter? I thought it was a joke between cheese and pig on D1 but can't tell if this is still a joke or an actual role claim.

Jose Valasquez posted:

Mostly reiterating what's been said already, but Maigius has an interesting role that isn't very useful to the town. He buried PQ and his stuff so that nobody could take it but then someone took it anyway. Also he can tell who takes the stuff for some reason, which seems very useful to the town!

He hasn't done any scum hunting this game and he had a sketchy vote change near the deadline.

I'm fully down with a Maigius launch too

Mr. Steak@Voodoofly posted:

dude, what are you even trying to get at here? you think andy is legit scum and so is pq...?

Mr. Steak posted:

LordNad posted:

The whole CapnAndy debacle is giving me strong deja vu from Good Place D1.

Scientastic, Pussy Quipped, CapitalistPig, Sub Rosa

Bet one of them is scum for sure.

##unvote

hey, not to completely spam about this, but i'd add voodoofly to that list for shading andy, even if he never dropped a vote

Mr. Steak posted:

Scientastic posted:

Who’s backpedaling? I still think CapnAndy’s post was scummy, I just think that other posts that were provoked by the interaction are scummier. I’m glad to say my views can evolve and that I am capable of viewing multiple players on a spectrum of scumminess. I think you’re reaching a bit here.

lol good to know you're town this game

Mr. Steak@Andy posted:

thats a surprising amount of words for such a nothing vote-reason. u just trying to plump up your vote post so it looks serious?

Squiggly posted:

Cheese - made like 3 posts talking about people voting merk for bad reasons...and then voted merk

cheese sandwich posted:

Sub Rosa posted:

We're so spoiled for choice for scummy people to lunch that I don't know that I have much useful to contribute. I do think there are cases to be made for quite a few less obvious people to be scum, but casing them while I think merk is who should be lunched first seems counter-productive.

MisterJed posted:

I feel like a lot was said about maigius early on, then everyone (rightfully) started exploring others rather than just l*nch maigius immediately, but his beginning-of-day posting was suspicious and we should move back to him.

Sub Rosa posted:

But xopods was bussing Scientastic pretty hard early D1 in a way that didn't feel like legit scum hunting to me.

Maigius posted:

Claim chart

Sub Rosa posted:

At this point I'm questioning how much I believe the cop claim. I had the thought that if I had that power, I wouldn't pick three people I suspect as scum, I would pick two people I think are town and one person I think is scum. Of course picking three suspicious people is also a fair play. If it comes back with three positives, that is one hell of a game changer.

So then I thought what are the implications if this role is a complete fabrication by scum. I started by wondering what would play out if scum picked three suspected townies to claim were targeted. The optimal play then would be to say only one was scum. Then you try to get town to vote all three in sequence out based on the cop claim. Because obviously every person on the list that flips town makes the people remaining on the list seem like scum. So maybe you could get town to lunch three townies in a row early while scum nightkills at least one if not two people every night. After that you get lunched for the obvious fake claim, but maybe town doesn't survive that much carnage. Possible that one of your suspected townies flips scum but not from your team, which is still a win because now you are confirmed cop.

Then I thought about what if you instead put three scum on the list. Again claiming only one is scum. Let town lunch it's pick, and then the other two can claim to be confirmed town and the cop a confirmed cop.

Problem with this is that there seems to be either two scum teams or a scum team plus SK. The other team/SK could decide to just kill the cop, and then when the cop flips scum, the jig is up.

Of course if DMBoogie is actually scum, but honest about the Crusador role, maybe there could be a play there that guarding the cop to keep town from ever seeing the cop's flip could let scum make it to the win. Then again, Crusador only kills one random visitor, so that's still risky.

So at the end of all of that, I'm still not sure if I believe or disbelieve the cop claim. But I don't think we can say the role claim is proven just by lunching one person on the list, no matter how they flip.

Squiggly posted:

Sub Rosa posted:

It isn't a standard cop role though, this is a weird game. Standard cop claims can be verified with a single lunch so fake claiming doesn't have the upside this claim does if it is a take claim. We definitely shouldn't take it at face value imo.

See this is scummy

xopods posted:

These are good points on this last page about Sal and his role... I hadn't really questioned it all that much at first because although I haven't seen Sal's scum game, an unprompted fakeclaim didn't seem like it'd be his style. If I had to guess at a Sal scum game based on his Town game, I'd have guessed he'd be the laid-back type that comments on cases without making many of his own and just tries to fly under the radar.

However, I initially understood it to be a standard Ecco Cop, i.e. returning a binary result on whether there is or isn't Scum in the group, rather than an exact number.

That version is both much less common (to the point that I've never seen it before) and vastly more powerful than a standard Ecco Cop. Enough so that I think it is a good reason to doubt it.

There's just so much upside to the gambit as Scum, if you name three Town players, and limited downside. Can't be proven wrong until all three flip, yet can lead potentially multiple mislunches in the meantime.

Anyway, I guess I gotta add Sal to my list of people to re-read. Gonna tick off a few more people on that list now.

Squiggly posted:

Bro

7 of 9

Sub Rosa posted:

I was right that something was off with the claim, it was just off because he misread, not because he is scum.

Sub Rosa posted:

I've mostly had a town read on Nep, except for the Sal vote end of day D2. I find dmboogie's role claim and admitting to have killed hambeet plausible. I lean towards a scum read on DGK. If Nep is SK, the entombed stuff, which I also believe, means that if DGK flips town, we can still lunch Nep tomorrow and not have any more SK kills. And if DGK flips scum, then Nep is cleared, at least to the extent we believe the even night cop claim.

##vote DGK2000