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In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
:siren: Hey stupids, if you haven't read all the books or aren't comfortable with spoilers for Season 6, you should leave this topic now. Spoilers begin below the title card! :siren:



Get hype!

The sixth season of Game of Thrones will begin airing on 24 April 2016.

Rules

1. Don't post spoilers in the Unsullied thread.
2. Don't confirm spoilers or call out people who post spoilers in the Unsullied thread. Report them!
3. Don't use spoiler tags for ASOIAF-related or GOT-related material in this thread. Everything is fair game. In the case of a significant new release like TWOW (lol), a moratorium on this rule will be imposed so everyone has a chance to read it, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Break the rules and you become a tree.

---

Episodes

Episode 1: The Red Woman
Written by: David Benioff and D.B. Weiss
Directed by: Jeremy Podeswa
Synopsis: Jon Snow is dead. Daenerys meets a strong man. Cersei sees her daughter again.

Episode 2: Home
Written by: Dave Hill
Directed by: Jeremy Podeswa
Synopsis: Bran trains with the Three-Eyed Raven. In King’s Landing, Jaime advises Tommen. Tyrion demands good news, but has to make his own. At Castle Black, the Night’s Watch stands behind Thorne. Ramsay Bolton proposes a plan, and Balon Greyjoy entertains other proposals.

Episode 3: Oathbreaker
Written by: David Benioff and D.B. Weiss
Directed by: Daniel Sackheim
Synopsis: Daenerys meets her future. Bran meets the past. Tommen confronts the High Sparrow. Arya trains to be No One. Varys finds an answer. Ramsay gets a gift.

Episode 4: Book of the Stranger
Written by: David Benioff & D. B. Weiss
Directed by: Daniel Sackheim
Synopsis: Tyrion strikes a deal. Jorah and Daario undertake a difficult task. Jaime and Cersei try to improve their situation.

Episode 5: (Hold) The Door
Written by: David Benioff & D. B. Weiss
Directed by: Jack Bender
Synopsis: Tyrion seeks a strange ally. Bran learns a great deal. Brienne goes on a mission. Arya is given a chance to prove herself.

Episode 6: Blood of my Blood
Written by: Bryan Cogman
Directed by: Jack Bender
Synopsis: An old foe comes back into the picture. Gilly meets Sam's family. Arya faces a difficult choice. Jaime faces off against the High Sparrow.

Episode 7: The Broken Man
Written by: Bryan Cogman
Directed by: Mark Mylod
Synopsis: The High Sparrow eyes another target. Jaime confronts a hero. Arya makes a plan. The North is reminded.

Episode 8: No One
Written by: David Benioff and D.B. Weiss
Directed by: Mark Mylod
Synopsis: While Jaime weighs his options, Cersei answers a request. Tyrion's plans bear fruit. Arya faces a new test.

Episode 9: Battle of the Bastards
Written by: David Benioff and D.B. Weiss
Directed by: Miguel Sapochnik
Synopsis: As the Starks prepare to fight, Davos loses something dear; Ramsay plays a game; Daenerys faces a choice.

Episode 10: The Winds of Winter
Written by: David Benioff and D.B. Weiss
Directed by: Miguel Sapochnik
Synopsis: Cersei stands trial for her crimes, while Jaime celebrates victory with Walder Frey at The Twins; Davos confronts Jon about Melisandre's actions, and Littlefinger reveals his intentions to Sansa; Meanwhile, Bran continues his quest for knowledge in the far North as "winter" finally arrives.

---

So what's happening in Season 6?

gently caress knows. GRRM failed to stay ahead of the show and we are now, more than any previous season, into new material. Reports coming in suggest that the show will be finishing up some AFFC and ADWD material (Kingsmoot, Jaime in the Riverlands, etc.) it left out of Season 4 and 5, but expect major revelations from TWOW and beyond. However, whether any significant plot developments are actually true to what will eventually happen in books or are instead David and Dan's own retarded brain children is unknown. All I know is that, after the travesty that was Season 5, I'm expecting some real bullshit.

Here's what's been confirmed to be happening:

- Dany fucks around with the Dothraki and eventually takes control of them when Drogon saves her
- Jorah and Daario bro it up on the road trying to find and save Dany
- Tyrion and Varys bro it up in Meereen trying to sort out the problems in the city that no one cares about
- Shae returns in a dream
- Chekhov's dragons wait for someone to release them
- The North chafes under the rule of the Boltons, the North Remembers, etc.
- Kingsmoot: introduction of Euron and Aeron, Yara and Theon are both present as well
- Jon is revived, Melisandre probably dies in the process
- Margaery becomes devout, presumably as a ploy, and is released by the Faith
- Sam reunites with his parents in the Reach
- Jaime learns diplomacy in the Riverlands with Bronn and besieges Riverrun
- Return of Edmure and Blackfish
- Allegedly, Sandor Clegane comes back too
- Brienne's personal GPS brings her back south so she can hastily resume her AFFC story
- The return of the Brotherhood Without Banners in some capacity (but not Stoneheart, never Stoneheart)
- More loving Dorne
- Bran learns to be a tree and travels through time
- Arya returns to Westeros after spending most of the season blind in Braavos
- Sansa stays in the North and appears back in Winterfell with Littlefinger
- Jon leads an army of wildlings and giants south to take Winterfell
- Battle of the Bastards, Jon vs. Ramsay
- Tower of Joy flashback
- GRRM cries himself to sleep

---

Confirmed Cast Additions

The North


Dean S. Jagger as Smalljon Umber
Better late than never, I suppose. Too bad Greatjon's actor couldn't come back.


Max von Sydow as Three Eyed Raven
Aw, I thought Struan Rodger would have been great if he'd gotten some decent material.


Sebastian Croft as Young Eddard Stark
Little Ned.

The Iron Islands


Pilou Asbaek as Euron Greyjoy
TFW Mads Mikkelsen was busy and there's no Victarion either

The Riverlands


Ricky Champ as Flynn
His cast description sounds like a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners after they go renegade.

The Reach


Freddie Stroma as Dickon Tarly
A Dickon finally made it into the show.


Samantha Spiro as Melessa Tarly
I wonder if she'll be anything like her cousin Selyse.


James Faulkner as Randyll Tarly
Still only like the third worst father in Westeros.


Rebecca Benson as Talla Tarly
Let's be honest, knowing Sam's luck, she's probably doomed.

Essos


Essie Davis as "Cersei"
She plays Cersei in the Braavosi play within the show. Meta.


Melanie Liburd as High Priestress Kinvara
RIP Moqorro.


Souad Faress as High Priestess of the Dosh Khaleen
Time for some more prophecy


Richard E. Grant as Izembaro
:tvtropes:


Joe Naufahu as Khal Jhaqo
:tvtropes:


Andrei Claude as Khal Rhalko
:tvtropes:


Elie Haddad as Khal TBA
:tvtropes:

Unknown


Luke Roberts as "Lord Rowland Selwyn"
Sounds like a pseudonym. The northern name makes me think it's adult Ned.


Edie Eyre as "Ser Alfred Hunrith"
Another pseudonym. Could be Arthur Dayne.


Ian McShane as TBA
Most people think he's Septon Meribald, which would be great.


Robert Aramayo as TBA
He's Young somebody. Young Howland Reed maybe?


Sam Coleman as TBA
Popular speculation is that he is Young Hodor.

---

Thread History

Season 1: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - Ned Head Redemption - Early Episode 7 Thread
Season 2: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - Shadow Baby
Season 3: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - Dracarys - The Red Wedding
Season 4: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - The Purple Wedding - The Night's King - IN LIKE THIS
Season 5: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler - Raping the Stark - Hardhome - Burn Baby Burn
Season 6: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Hiatus - Spoiler

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 26, 2016

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In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Latest Hype

Season 6: Tease
Hey, look, Bran's back.

Season 6: Promos
Three promos implying the downfall of the three remaining major houses (yeah right).

Season 6: Hall of Faces Tease
:geno:

Season 6: The Best Seat in the House
If you pay close attention you might spot some interesting shots but nothing super exciting.

Season 6: Trailer #1
Thread discussion starts here.

Season 6: March Madness Promo
Get used to that Tyrion quote.

Season 6: Trailer #2
Thread discussion starts here.

Season 6: Event Promo
Uh oh, Dorne makes its first appearance.

---

Recommended Reading

This spoiler thread also serves as a de facto book discussion thread since it's the only place on the forums where you can talk about the series with other book readers without using spoilers tags that also isn't the Bad Thread.

In the last thread, I had a list of essays and theories about the books but I don't see much point in including them here anymore unless TWOW comes out. I will include a link to the currently released TWOW sample chapters because people still might find that useful.

Resources

TWOW Sample Chapters: A compilation of the sample chapters of The Winds of Winter that have been released to the public. Includes full chapters, summaries, and partial transcripts. The following chapters are included: Theon I, Arianne I, Mercy (Arya I), Alayne (Sansa I), Arianne II [Summary], Ser Barristan I, Victarion I [Partial Transcript], Tyrion I [Brief Summary], Ser Barristan II [Summary], Tyrion II.

---

Recommended Watching

Note: these are all dumb funny videos

Arya Stark reveal her true beliefs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj6OgXEwlSw

jaime lannister - a song of ice and fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lz3lAd2nGQ

slay frey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBWjmTFa-Ic

A Storm of Swords - It Gets Better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGUKDZFiy-A

Rage of Thrones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLCOvZOh1o

the stannis baratheon foundation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7KbIu7E81s

an interview with GRRM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQeRboyjwDk

real life direwolf reviews asoiaf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyxwmKRxQ_c

Guy tries to recap all the Game of Thrones books in 2 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJoW7Vnf-0E

WHUR MUH BOATS AT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P38EG97zlOg

preparation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cejwmJHS_TU

Roose Change: The Lannister Honeypot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTVnZm9hFg

Stannis has an Evangelion Moment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biXxOr78A2o

Game of Thrones party hard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4008gIPuT4I

GOT party hard 2 - king of my castle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXHIWOM-S7I

The best of George R.R. Martin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKhGqWcJGY

Payphone Parody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rapo0h-RDnk

Game of Groans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX-h8CrIyyY

Multiplicity 2: Game of Clones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eoHTyICp3g

GoT Commentary "In the books" supercut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snm6qnezv0Q

Sesame Streets: Game of Chairs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhWUFXvaZjo

Seth Brings Jon Snow to a Dinner Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BabsgCQhpu4

Teenage Dornish Ninja Sand Snakes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VTkL62YnTA

Coldplay's Game of Thrones (The Musical)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs7xO5P3Az4

not so funny now huh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSH1qUjHRK0

Heavy Bubbles™ TV Commercial (featuring Thor "The Mountain" Bjornsson)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PtOAnZxB8s

CurbYourEuron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlS7KR9lo3c

Tommen's Bizarre Adventure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7P1U63ndAE

---

zoux posted:

nuncle jimbo posted:

For some reason the thought of Jeff Goldblum as the Red Viper occurred to me and I can't shake it
You..ah...you...ah...raped? her. Heh. Then you...you...then you *waggles eybrows* killed her? You murdered her children.
---

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

It would be like a telenovela. We open with Dany in Daario's arms in a bungalow with a slowly rotating ceiling fan. They giggle, and the thick humidity leaves their skin glistening wetly. The door swings open, revealing Khal Drogo in an open-front short-sleeved shirt.

"Dany, mi esposa," he says, as the camera zooms in on his smiling face. "Yo Acabamos de regresar de la tumba para continuar nuestro matrimonio."

But then, a tense musical sting! His eyes narrow. "Daenerys. Este hombre que sostiene en manera de un amante. ¿Quién es él?"

"No, marido!" She leaps to her feet, quickly buttoning her blouse shut. "No es lo que piensas, lo juro por los Siete!"

"Khal Drogo, puedo explicarlo," Daario says, his thick, bristling moustache shimmering with sweat. And gold. "¿No le gustaría por favor calmarte?"

Drogo's eyes bore into Daario like a physical blow, knocking the man back onto the extremely tidy bed. "Cállate, puta."
---

Apoplexy posted:

Janos Slynt is returning, though. So his role will likely just be unaltered.

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Janos Slynt will return in... Thunderball

Dikkfor posted:

The Man with the Golden Cloak

geeves posted:

Jon Snow will give him A View To A Kill

My PIN is 4826 posted:

Jon Snow will sit on the Iron Throne by the end of the series, because The Wall Is Not Enough

lifts cats over head posted:

Moonboyraker Starring Cersei Lannister as far as Tyrion knows.

Brooklyn Bruiser posted:

Lysa Arryn in Skyfall.

lifts cats over head posted:

Robert Baratheon is "Making the Eight" in Octopussy.
---
---
The original posting of the "Dave Hill" quote:

colonel_korn posted:

quote:

“We had an assistant named Dave Hill,” say Benioff and Weiss. “One day last summer he walked into our office and said, ‘You know that kid whose family gets massacred by the wildlings? The one who runs to Castle Black to let them know the wildlings are nearby?’ ‘Yeah?’ ‘Well,’ said Dave, ‘doesn’t it make sense that he’d stay at Castle Black and become a Night’s Watch recruit? Where else is he going to go?’ ‘You’re right,’ we said. ‘That does make sense.’ ‘And what if during the battle for Castle Black, he’s the one who ends up killing Ygritte?’ This year, Dave Hill is a writer on the show.”
---

Lionel Richie posted:

"We had an assistant named Dave Hill," said Benioff and Weiss. "One day last summer he walked into our office and said, 'You know how Stannis really loves his daughter?' 'Yeah?' 'Well,' said Dave, doesn't it make sense that he'd burn her alive? What else is he going to do?' 'You're right,' we said. 'That does make sense.' 'This year, Dave Hill is a writer on the show."
---

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

Here lies Stannis, the fewer of two evils
---

Aurubin posted:

Shirtless, with open wounds freezing shut in the unnatural cold, Ramsay Snow raised his daggers to the pale figure and the undead host before him. "This is turning into a lovely evening.", he said with a wry smirk. The baying of hounds filled the air, and the Night's King retreated back to his boat.
---

Irish Joe posted:

I have faith the next book will be out before March of next year.

loquacius posted:

Care to toxx? I think a post like this deserves a toxx

Irish Joe posted:

Sure :toxx: GRRM won't let me down.
---

Ague Proof posted:

Bloodraven: There is something you need to see, it involves your father and your brother Jon. It is very important. Rhaegar called it the Tower of Joy, in Dorne-
Bran: gently caress
---

THA TITTY THRILLER posted:

"And what if during the battle of Castle Black, he's the one who ends up killing Ygritte?"

"Oh, no. That is... No, Dave. We're not gonna do that. That sounds very silly."

This year Dave Hill takes lunch orders.

counterfeitsaint posted:

THA TITTY THRILLER posted:

"And what if during the battle of Castle Black, he's the one who ends up killing Ygritte?"

"Who the gently caress are you? And where is my coffee?"
---

Ague Proof posted:

"We had an assistant named Dave Hill," said Benioff and Weiss. "One day last summer he walked into our office and said, 'You know that guy (Dave Hill) who does the lore videos and brings you coffee? The one who runs to David and Dan to tell them Olly should kill Ygritte?' 'Yeah?' 'Well,' said Dave, 'doesn't it make sense that he'd stay on the show and become a writer? What else is he going to do?' 'You're right,' we said. 'That does make sense.' 'And what if during season 5, he's the one who ends up taking all the blame?' This year, Dave Hill is a writer on the show."
---

C-SPAN Caller posted:

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

The only stories of the Tower of Joy we get in the book are either...

1. Spoken narrative and thus likely unreliable
2. Ned's fever dreams which could also be pretty hosed up

The show provides the only unbiased depiction of the Tower of Joy, so we now know that Arthur "The Sword" Dayne is actually a two sword kinda guy, and also that Oswell Whent never existed

Maybe before the fight Oswell Whent fused with Arthur Dayne DBZ style.
---

ruddiger posted:

I liked the part where Sansa and Jon reunited and Sansa scooped him up and cradled his tiny body in her arms.
---

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 26, 2016

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

twistedmentat posted:

Wouldn't Marg already be a member of the faith? I mean, I'm pretty sure the Reach is one of the areas dominated by the Andals. I guess they mean confirms her obedience to the faith and to obey the High Septon direct orders.

Yeah, sorry, I worded that badly. She's become devout, not converted.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
In episode one Varys will haphazardly fire a crossbow into the air and in episode nine it will spear Kevan through the heart through an open window.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
It really was. Whatever issues Season 1 had (and it did have some) pale in comparison to the later seasons. It had the advantage that the material that it was adapting was the most straightforward and you had Sean Bean carrying the show while the young actors found their footing but, even then, it seems like the showrunners approached the show with a completely different design philosophy. The changes and adaption choices made were usually pragmatic because the showrunners seemed to actually trust the source material, and those that were made were usually done to add character depth rather plot changes, and overall they maintained a spirit much closer to the books' (compare the mostly grounded fighting in Season 1 to later seasons where it became much flashier and over-the-top).

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Dec 27, 2015

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
That's no horse. :lost:

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

Steve2911 posted:

"It's fine as long as they're mentally disabled, like everything else in life" - Bran, Bloodraven and by extension GRRM

Bran's warging of Hodor is always portrayed as a horrible, exploitative thing. The text really emphasizes that Bran is doing something evil.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Truly the most GRRM update: nothing.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

GoGoGadgetChris posted:

GRRM explicitly wrote in a blog post that it saps his motivation when people predict his twists, and that he gets paralyzed between spitefully changing it (for the worse, as he admits) and keeping it as is, but with no enthusiasm to write it.

When? He's always said that he knows people get close but that he wouldn't change anything because he would be nullifying all the foreshadowing he plants if he did.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Yeah, if Stannis is supposed to burn Shireen in the books, it would have to be in circumstances completely divorced from what was portrayed in the show and at a much later timeframe (i.e. after the defeat of the Boltons, because all of the relevant characters are so far removed from each other and the only way Stannis and Shireen would reunite at this point in the books is if he took Winterfell and then sent for her at the Wall). This raises the question of why the showrunners would bring what is clearly mid-to-late TWOW, and possibly even ADOS material, into Season 5. The show then further muddies the waters by having Brienne kill Stannis like ten minutes into the next episode. Does that happen too? When? How? Again, all the relevant characters are so far removed from each other that the circumstances would have to be completely different and would have to occur really far down the line. Did the showrunners hate Stannis that much and wanted to end his story as quickly as possible and as ignominious as possible (the idea being that if Stannis was going to burn Shireen in the books, his sole heir, it would be need to be to achieve something more substantial than inducing a thaw and that, if he is going to be crushed in battle for Brienne to find dying in the woods, it's going to be against someone other than Ramsay, his Twenty Good Men, and his infinite cheat code army out of nowhere)? The answer is "probably". The end result is you can't trust what the show portrays to be true to the books anymore because every thing is so contradictory and so poorly hacked together.

I still maintain that Shireen will be burned by Melisandre at the Wall, Stannis will win against the Boltons, and that if Stannis is going to get crushed in battle it is going to be against a revived Jon, whose army of wildlings and northmen will be further bolstered by former members of Stannis' own army who defected to Jon upon the revelation that he's the real Azor Ahai. I also believe Stannis' downfall won't mean his death but rather his push toward becoming the Night's King but I acknowledge that this is especially controversial so ignore this if you must. I don't know if Brienne may or may not play any role in Stannis' actual death because it's just so far from the book material that it's impossible to discern how they might cross paths again. Does Stannis come south or does Brienne go north? The former can't happen until Stannis takes Winterfell and establishes himself in the north, and there's no guarantee that will even happen at all without something going disastrously wrong sometime after he defeats the Boltons in the upcoming battle. If it's the latter and Brienne goes north, why? The only reason would be to go save a Stark sister, most likely Sansa but I suppose she could also hear news of Jeyne Poole and believe that she is Arya, but Sansa won't be going north until after she marries Harry the Heir and that's dependent on the marriage going off without the hitch and Sansa not getting kidnapped by Shadrich before that happens (and he would bring her south!) and Jeyne is being sent to Braavos so, like I said, it's impossible to tell. I wouldn't count on Lady Stoneheart honoring any part of Brienne's oath ether since Lady Stoneheart is a vengeful revenant that disregards the validity of any oath following her death. The reason I believe things happened like they did in the show is that the showrunners honestly, truly, legitimately hate Stannis and wanted to get rid of him and add some contrived drama to what would otherwise be an even more lackluster episode nine in what was already a lackluster season.

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Jan 7, 2016

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Bit hard to justify getting rid of Stannis in order to thin the cast/plot because he goes nowhere when Season 5 saw the triumphant debut of the totally necessary Sand Snakes and Dorne. I wonder what essential storylines featuring the Sand Snakes are to come.

Gorn Myson posted:

Theres shitloads of reasons why Stannis was written the way he was. "The showrunners hate him" is probably the dumbest though.

I agree, it was dumb of the showrunners to let their biases affect how they adapted the show. :v:

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jan 7, 2016

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

hanales posted:

None. They killed myrcella. Thy will be background noise in any future Dorne plots.

While I hope you're right, I don't think that will be the case. Also, if they truly are regulated to background noise, it makes it even more pointless that they were introduced in the first place when it was Ellaria who poisoned Myrcella and nothing the Sand Snakes did or said mattered. If Jaime and Bronn (assuming you had to keep the storyline the first place) were apprehended by Areo immediately and met Ellaria in jail rather than the Sand Snakes, nothing would change and you would lose a lot of what made Dorne so bad last season.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

Gorn Myson posted:

Bias against a fictional character?

Yeah? Aren't there characters you like or dislike?

Kajeesus posted:

I sincerely doubt that anyone but Stannis will burn her. He's been hedging his bets on Melisandre throughout the books, letting her advise him and use her magic against his enemies, but never committing to her religion or following her blindly. In aSoS, he was willing to sacrifice an innocent child when convinced it was necessary, but had the choice taken from him. Shireen, in addition to being an innocent child, is also his daughter and, more importantly, his heir and legacy. What could the culmination of his character arc be, if not him being asked to sacrifice the one thing he values most?

While I can certainly see the narrative appeal of Stannis burning Shireen (you can rattle off any number of classical or mythical dramatic stories about a father killing their offspring for the greater good), the biggest sticking point is that he physically can't. Shireen and Melisandre are at the Wall and Stannis is campaigning and not far outside Winterfell. Either he wins and brings Shireen to Winterfell, at which point he has no reason to burn her (unless something mindblowingly dramatic happened suddenly, like the Wall fell and the Others attacked, at which point it's like... why would the show give up that potential drama to do it for comparatively lower stakes in Season 5?), or he loses and dies there. I suppose he could lose but survive, run back to the Wall, and then burn Shireen but I feel like in the meantime Melisandre would burn Shireen first (since she has the opportunity since she's right there, the pressing need because Jon just died, and also the willingness to burn a child) and it relies on the Wall remaining stable long enough for a broken Stannis to make it back there. Besides, if Stannis fled to the Wall and burned Shireen, you would also be basically repeating the Edric Storm storylike in ASOS all over again. And then what happens? Does the Wall melt instead of the blizzard thawing? Actually, that would be really loving funny.

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 7, 2016

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

Gorn Myson posted:

So D&D wrote Stannis into the show, cast a charismatic actor to play him, kept him around for four seasons and gave him a lot of screen time specifically because they hated him? Hes a fictional character. If they hated him so much they could have written him out at any point in the show. Or just not cast him in the first place.

They kept him around for four seasons but generally portrayed him unfavorably in a way that was untrue to his characterization in the books and emphasized his negative traits wherever possible (like when he planned to kill Davos even after he read the Night's Watch letter, how he burns many more people in the show than he does in the books and for less legitimate reasons, and how he spent most of Season 4 threatening Davos at every opportunity), spent a lot of time describing their negative interpretation of the character in the behind the scenes features (example), and they also specifically did not tell the charismatic actor that they (I agree, Dillane's amazing, just the writing isn't) much about the history of the character beyond the fact that he "won a few battles" and apparently he had to fish to get even that.

As for the last part, I could turn it around and ask the same question to the people that insist that he was killed only to cull the cast and save money. Evidently he had some essential part to play that didn't allow them to kill him any earlier. That said, I'm still not sure that there aren't important things that Stannis does in the books that the show is willing to pass off onto other characters, explaining his premature death. Specifically, the defeat of the Boltons. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that book Stannis beats the Boltons but that they had him lose because they wanted to keep their favorite character Ramsay around for another season.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

Ginette Reno posted:

That seems like such a big change to make. If Stannis does beat the Boltons in the book, then what does a resurrected Jon do? He's not going to march against Stannis.

Wouldn't he? If Stannis beats the Boltons, he would be in control of Winterfell and a revived Jon who has broken from the Night's Watch and has Melisandre whispering in his ear about being Azor Ahai might decide to take back his rightful seat. I also wouldn't put it past Stannis to march against Jon for abandoning his post, mobilizing an army, and y'know, probably being the reason Shireen is dead.

I admit I'm not quite sure about how the next part of the northern plot goes. There's so many different characters and potential beats in the air that it could go in a million different directions. I am certain Stannis doesn't die in the Battle of Ice and, if he wins there, he is fully equipped to take Winterfell through some combination of subterfuge or by exploiting the chaos within the walls. I can't imagine the Boltons surviving a victorious Stannis. Then again, they could fall back to the Dreadfort. Like I said, I'm not sure.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

Ginette Reno posted:

Would Melisandre abandon a still living Stannis, though? Even if she does resurrect Jon in the books, that still leaves Stannis alive and a victorious Stannis at Winterfell would presumably not do much to dissuade Mel from her belief in him. In the show she flees him like a sinking ship when she realizes he's not the one but it's a bit harder to justify that if he wins that battle.

Although it would be an interesting dynamic for Mel to march alongside Jon. Stannis having to play second fiddle to Jon and having to treat with Jon/Mel would be a very Stannis thing to have happen

As far as Melisandre knows, thanks to the Pink Letter, Stannis is dead. Her POV chapter in ADWD is already her skirting around the edges of the revelation that her fires are trying to tell her than Jon is Azor Ahai; the news from the Pink Letter might be enough for her to finally make the connection. Once she realizes Jon is AA, she'll do anything to bring him back (hence, burning Shireen). If she later finds out Stannis is actually alive, I can't see it doing much to dissuade her from supporting Jon if she's made up her mind about him being AA, especially if she has already torched Shireen.

Like you, I'm sure the letter is false. I believe Mance wrote it and the entire thing is fake in order to provoke Jon to come south but can see it being written by Ramsay but based on false information from the battle. Either way, Stannis won't be defeated at the Battle of Ice. He has too many things going for him like the trap he's laying that's going to be devastating to the enemy, the folly of the Freys, and the fact that the Manderlys are going to be there to switch sides and provide back up.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

Nail Rat posted:

He just gets stabbed at the end of every season from now on, like Kenny on South Park

I will be shocked - shocked - if Ramsay doesn't stab Jon at some point and he shrugs it off.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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Mike N Eich posted:

I guess one possibility for Stannis in TWOW (which will never come out) is that the Red Letter *is* true, but immediately after Ramsay and the Boltons think they are victorious, the Manderly's and other loyal Northmen have come back with Rickon and revolt against the Boltons and declare for the Starks.

That would be the storyline that would delve the closest with the TV show portrayal, as Jon can then march down and join them. It just sounds incredibly stupid.

Funny how after this latest season there is almost no speculation about what Mance Rayder's role is anymore. After they killed him off did we all just assume his role is kind of fulfilled in the books as well? Will he be killed with little fanfare at the beginning of TWOW? Who knows.

I think Mance gets swept under the rug in terms of Season 5 cause it happened so soon and it was overshadowed by all the poo poo that came after it. And it's placement was so strange; I can't think of any major character deaths (not that Mance really counted as a major character in the show) in the first episode of a season. As for Mance in the books, while I can't see him dying at the hands of Ramsay (I imagine he evades capture by hiding in the crypts), long-term he's just another of the dozens of important characters in the northern storyline who might play a massive role or not. He's one I have basically no real predictions for.

Pedro De Heredia posted:

Yes, they emphasized negative traits, a completely normal thing to do in an adaptation, and you react to this by saying they 'hate his character' and wanted to sabotage him, a thing obsessed teenagers who have too much emotional attachment to the media they consume would think.

I'm sorry that you get so salty whenever someone criticizes your favorite TV show.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

Ginette Reno posted:

Not sure what would be interesting about it. They killed his army and Mel abandoned him. There's kinda nothing left for him to do.

At least in the books he'll have an army to say gently caress you to Jon and Mel with.

"I swear by season 7 this show will basically be the Lannisters/Boltons/Freys holding gay orgies in King's Landing while Stannis and Davos conjure up a plan every episode to fuk them up but at the last minute it gets fuked up like Pinky and the Brain."

What could have been.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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zVxTeflon posted:

Why does she have to be anything? Its not like Thoros is. I think its better if shes just some chick without an elaborate disguise.

There's been too many oblique reference in both the show and the books (and by the actress) that Melisandre has been kicking around for 100+ years for it not to turn out that she is actually decrepit old fire zombie.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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Cressen's actor says that Carice Van Houten told him that Melisandre is 400 years old:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtvPQsq4cHk&t=55

Carice Van Houten says Melisandre is way older than 100 years old:
http://www.accesshollywood.com/articles/access-countdown-to-game-of-thrones-season-2-qa-carice-van-houten-talks-melisandre-115555/

Melisandre says she's been fighting "far" longer than Stannis, implying she's much older than she appears:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sx8Yu_n23c&t=37

In the same scene as the above, Melisandre rises after being strangled by Stannis in a way that is reminiscent of a corpse coming back to life. In the DVD commentaries, episode director Alan Taylor and Emilia Clarke have the following exchange when it happens:

quote:

Alan: "Sorry, I've got to interrupt. The way she stands up here she's sort of doing this kind of... she's coming back to life. It was something she did on her own. It's this very strange kind of, like, we find out later that she's not... entirely... um..."

Emilia: "Of course!"

Alan: "You know what I probably shouldn't say any more." *laughs*

Emilia: "Yeah, no, no, no, no, yeah."

Alan: "But standing up strange like that, it makes sense given who she is."

Emilia: "Yes, definitely, definitely."

Alan: "A cool choice."

Emilia: *sings the Twilight Zone title theme*

Melisandre tells Gendry that she was a slave and that she was scourged and branded. However, we have repeatedly seen that her body is flawless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4D0attDaw&t=47

In the books, Melisandre constantly wears a ruby necklace that is magical in nature. We know that glamours are sustained by magical rubies that must be worn on the glamoured individual's person and that Melisandre can create them. Note, as people mentioned above, the show hosed this up in Season 4 when Melisandre was naked without her ruby. I'd chalk it up to a production error when we look at everything above and/or they decided to simplify things so that she can glamour herself without her ruby.

Beric, a known fire zombie, does not eat and barely seems to sleep:

quote:

Lord Beric himself did not eat. Arya had never seen him eat, though from time to time he took a cup of wine. He did not seem to sleep, either. His good eye would often close, as if from weariness, but when you spoke to him it would flick open again at once.

Melisandre barely needs sleep:

quote:

Melisandre had spent the night in her chair by the fire, as she often did. With Stannis gone, her bed saw little use. She had no time for sleep, with the weight of the world upon her shoulders. And she feared to dream.

quote:

Some nights she drowsed, but never for more than an hour. One day, Melisandre prayed, she would not sleep at all. One day she would be free of dreams.

Melisandre does not eat (or at least, does not need to):

quote:

“Does my lady wish to break her fast?” asked Devan.

Food. Yes, I should eat. Some days she forgot. R’hllor provided her with all the nourishment her body needed, but that was something best concealed from mortal men.

^Note also "mortal men", implying she's something else.

And, as noted above, Melisandre notes that "[she] had practiced her art for years beyond count".

Conclusion: she's a fire zombie like Beric (and now Catelyn) and likely a decrepit old one that uses a glamour to conceal her true self.

If she tries to give Jon the kiss of life, she'll probably die like Beric did when he revived Catelyn. That's why I think, in the books, she'll revive Jon some other way (specifically, sacrificing Shireen in the same type of shadowbinder ritual that Miri Maz Duur did to save Drogo by killing Rhaego) rather than sacrifice herself because I think she'd want to stick around and guide Jon to his destiny. However, I'm expecting the show to avoid this entirely and just have Melisandre give Jon the kiss of life and sacrifice herself. Might be wrong but most of Melisandre's scenes have taken place behind closed doors this season and she had a short shooting schedule so I think she'll die early on bringing Jon back.

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jan 9, 2016

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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The soundtrack, including the covers of the book's songs, is probably the most consistently good part of the show.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

gently caress that, that's hilarious.

Then again, I love that literally no one can resist making "I don't believe it" gags around Richard Wilson even though it's always so awkward. It haunts him wherever he goes and its been happening for years. Case in point, I just happened to have relistened to Stephen Merchant's attempt at it the other day from like 2002.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
While I think the Night Lamp theory is perfectly reasonable and feasible, it seems like an unnecessary complication on what is already a straightforward strategy.

Stannis and his men have drilled holes in the ice lake, weakening its integrity, and lie in wait on a thin strip of land. Their opponents are the Freys, led by Hosteen Frey, a truculent and unintelligent man who has already blundered into one trap set by Mors Crowfood (and previously lost an ear to frostbite) because of his arrogance and ignorance of the North; the Manderlys, who already hate the Freys and are already planning to side with Stannis thanks to the deal Wyman made with Davos; and (according to Theon, who may be mistaken) the Boltons, led by Ramsay, who has some experience in battle but is not a proven leader and is presumably in a mad rage because Theon and "Arya" have slipped his grasp. The consensus in Winterfell is that Stannis must be near-dead from the blizzard. Moreover, Stannis' opponents know that he is holed up in the village (because the Karstark maester fired off a raven to Winterfell saying as much) that is seemingly without any defense, and they believe that the Karstarks are going to turn their coat and betray Stannis at start of battle when Stannis, thanks to Jon's warning, has already foiled that plot).

It seems straightforward that Hosteen, hungry for glory and vengeance for his dead brother Aenys (killed in the trap) and believing that Stannis is at a major disadvantage, will lead his men over the frozen lake, failing to anticipate that the ice isn't thick enough to support the weight of his men because it has been weakened. A significant amount of them fall through the ice, including Hosteen, and those that don't are scattered and left in disarray by the trap. The Manderlys, who are familiar with the North and were probably planning on betraying the Freys anyway, wouldn't be stupid enough to cross the ice lake in force and will happily cut down any Freys attempting to escape the lake once the opportunity presents itself. Stannis and his small army can take advantage of the chaos to defeat the Freys and cannibalize their supplies, and then conspire with the Manderlys. The Boltons, if they do come, are following behind the Freys and the Manderlys and may only arrive after the Freys have already been wiped out. Regardless of whether you believe the Pink Letter is written by Ramsay, at this point, it makes the most sense strategically for the Manderlys to convince the Boltons that Stannis was defeated. Stannis and his men may even pass themselves off as Freys to lend credence to the fact. From there, they can march to Winterfell.

Or hey maybe Stannis dies because Breinne kills him.

In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Jan 24, 2016

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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From what little we know about Stannis' Lightbringer, it is likely a glamour created by Melisandre and its power is fueled by fire magic. The strongest it has ever glowed is when Melisandre burned Rattleshirt-disguised-as-Mance on a pyre that included weirwood branches at the Wall. If you subscribe to the Night's Lamp theory and want to believe that Stannis will blind his enemies with Lightbringer somehow, then it could be argued that the fiery destruction of the weirwood tree (and possibly Theon's corpse) will empower the illusion of Stannis' Lightbringer again and allow him to cast a light strong enough to disorientate and blind his enemies.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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People who believe the theory usually claim that Quentyn was engulfed in flame but suddenly developed a genetic fire resistance ("like Dany" they say, failing to understand that her fire resistance was a one time thing caused by magical interference, and that Targs aren't immune to fire) and successfully tamed a dragon ("because why else would the chapter be called 'The Dragontamer'?!"). They think the horrifically burned person who dies four days later in Barristan's bed is someone else and that the Dornishmen deliberately tricked Barristan into thinking it was Quentyn. The identity of the burned person is usually said to be either a random masked Brazen Beast or perhaps even the Tattered Prince because such a big deal is made about the latter's face being hidden. As for Quentyn, he's allegedly riding around on Viserion somewhere and will make his triumphant return during the Battle of Fire.

Basically, they think this:



In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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Ague Proof posted:

Dany was only going to be introduced as a POV character in the second book. You were supposed to hear ominous news about a ruthless barbarian queen with dragons over the sea and the twist would be she's a conflicted teenage girl.

You can recapture some of the same magic by skipping all Dany chapters too. It works for the first four books at least.

I maintain that Dany should never have been a POV. Jorah for AGOT-ASOS and Barristan for (all of) ADWD would have been better because you would have gotten enough glimpses of Dany's vulnerable side to humanize her but still kept her at enough arm's length to leave her motivations and evolving character in constant question (and also skipped a lot of awkward adolescent sexuality - no "their arousal was arousing").

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
I'm disappointed that Bloodraven still just looks like an old guy rather than an emaciated tree skeleton. While I suppose that that could just be how he looks in dreams and in the cave they'll make him look more like his book counterpart I'm expecting he'll still just be an old guy hanging in some tree branches like the old actor was at the end of Season 4.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
I like the idea for the teaser but the execution is lacking so it's kind of :geno:. It was also a weird choice to have all the dead Starks say something and randomly interrupt it with Joffrey before moving onto Jon. They should have gone the whole hog and had all the dead major characters talking, especially since they bothered to include Tywin, Ygritte, and Stannis' face in there.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
I get that they're showing dead people in order to suggest that the six main characters shown at the end are gonna die next (yeah right), but it's still strange to interrupt the clear sequence of dead Starks with Joffrey. Like I said, if they'd featured an assortment of other non-Stark dead major characters (Robert, Renly, Oberyn, to name some that aren't already there, for example) as well would have been better and would have made Joffrey's inclusion not feel so out of place.

Alternatively, if they'd just shown the dead Starks (and only the Starks), followed by Arya and Sansa, and then panned back to reveal all the other main characters, that would have worked as well.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
While I understand your thinking, I think it's actually implying all of the main characters (ie. Tyrion, Dany, Sansa, Arya, Jaime, and Cersei) are going to die because only dead people's faces should appear in the House of Black and White and they're all there. Tyrion gets specific focus during the transition from Jon not because he's being specifically marked for death over everyone else but because Tyrion is the "main" (read: top billed) character and is often given specific focus in these kinds of things because of it.

Also, no names are said; the dead characters speak one of their famous lines while the camera pans over them. If one of Tyrion's quotes played over the camera panning over his face then I think you'd be onto something. But I think the teaser is supposed to be saying "oh no, look all the living characters are in the place with dead characters. They're all gonna dieeeeeeeeee so tune in to see that definitely happen!".

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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That's some good family casting/costuming because he does look a lot like Theon with that haircut.

I think I see Tyrion in the dragon vault so he might be the one to release them after all.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
He better get an eye patch by the end of the season or otherwise have some kind of hosed up eye. He's the Crow's Eye after all. Otherwise it will be the two-eyed "Three Eyed Raven" saying "thousand eyes and one" all over again.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if they'll change him to "Raven's Eye".

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Stannis' corpse should be missing a head so probably not but then again with this show who knows.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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Oh so close. He's Irish.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.

colonel_korn posted:

Make this the main thread title for Season 6 please.

It's not like I'll have TWOW to draw a pithy adapted quote from so yeah, it will probably be "Game of Thrones SPOILER Thread: Get a loving life. It's only tits and dragons".

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Summary: It will be bad.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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Cirofren posted:

I still can't believe they thought it was a good idea to play the "I just need 20 good men" plan straight and have it succeed. The entire food supply, literal tonnes of food, for a thousands strong army. Covered and guarded and while it was snowing. No one saw them, they destroyed the food with fire.

It was such bullshit that even the characters pointed out how ridiculous it was.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

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lezard_valeth posted:

To be fair, she does so in the books too.

Cersei and Robert having a black haired child that died in infancy is a show-only invention. In the books, Cersei made sure to have an abotion when Robert got her pregnant so Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen are the only children she has ever had. That is why Maggy differentiates between Robert's sixteen (twenty in the show) and Cersei's three and why preserving the same line from the books is an inconsistency: because Cersei had four children in the show.

In terms of Season 5's issues it's one of the least important but it's still indicative of the general quality of writing of the show these days.

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In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Joffrey is killed with the strangler.

The Mountain is poisoned with diluted manitcore venom (to drag out his dying agony).

Jon Arryn is killed with the Tears of Lys.

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